A few years ago, there was an avid reader of this blog who would sometimes post comments. I've spoken of him before, and how he would email me his ultra conservative thoughts. He would accuse me of having liberal guilt, and that was the only reason I could like Obama. He also claimed that the only reason I was mocking Sarah Palin was because I was scared of her, that she was going to take down the Democrats.
Which obviously, is all very funny.
It was also fascinating to me. I had never come across people like this. I've watched O'Reilly and Hannity and these guys, but I assumed it was a bit of an act.
I even wrote the 1 hour pilot that has done amazing things for me about conservative media personalities like this, and how they secretly love Obama because it's great for ratings. It's no fun complaining about people who aren't in power.
I couldn't let this drop.
He seemed to have some intelligence, so I wanted to find out where he was coming from. And I probably also thought at some point he would admit that he didn't really believe these things, but just doing it for comedy or something.
In our back and forth, I discovered that he had a blog of his own where he wrote all of his extremist conservative rantings. He even got hired by a small conservative website to blog for them. Since he had so generously followed me, I kept up with this posts. Occasionally, when he made errors, or outright lied, I would post a comment to correct him.
Before I move on, is this considered trolling? I've heard this word before but don't really understand it. Pamie explained it to me once, and told me I shouldn't post argumentative things on other blogs, but I don't really get it.
If someone writes a blog post that is just blatantly wrong, why is it not okay to correct the record? Well, I think it is. Call it trolling or whatever, but I don't think it's cool to just let stuff slide. Plus, these kinds of folks are often living in a bubble, and they should at least hear the other side of the argument.
Okay, back to the story.
So I would post a comment sometimes. The other commenters of course would yell at me. Although some, even as they disagreed with me, would follow me on twitter and be friendly and it seemed all well and good.
Again, I enjoy this debate. This was great fun for me. It's interesting to hear their insane take on things (science is bad! Santorum is good!). That being said, I respect the other side, what I don't understand, and what I'm constantly confused by, are the people who are so blindly partisan that they cannot concede points. They can't admit that their side fucked up. They can't take news and look at it as it is, they can only look at it and think of how they can use it as a weapon against the other side. This baffles me. Why would anyone want to live this way?
Through this guy I discovered this whole world of conservatives on twitter. It is the most interesting thing in the world to me, and I can't get over it. I want to just talk to these people all day long and figure out where it went wrong for them (interestingly, for most it was 9/11. At some point, history going to look back and really see how 9/11 frightened and radicalized a lot of people. Just look at Dennis Miller).
One of this blogger's favorite things to say, and he writes it over and over again, and I mean, over AND over again, is this:
"Liberals want us to shut up, conservatives want liberals to keep talking"
A constant refrain. Another one: Obama wants you to shut up. He will not tolerate dissent. Another one: Michelle Obama cannot tell us what to eat! She's a fat ass! How dare she tell us not to eat cheeseburgers when she eats the whole menu of McDonalds!
And then his hero Andrew Breitbart died. He got really sad about it. And he wrote a post about the dangers of working too hard, and not paying attention to your health, and eating right.
So I went on there, and I wrote "jeez, with all of this talk about working out and eating right, you're sounding a lot like Michelle Obama".
For some reason, that was the comment that broke the asshole's back. He deleted the comment and banned me from his blog!
The crazy thing is, this is a huffington post type blog. Anyone can comment on there. There was a guy posting comments calling everyone sluts. Literally, every liberal woman was a slut. But my Michelle Obama jab crossed the line for some reason.
Honestly, I couldn't have been happier. I broke him! The bully backed down. He can dish it out, but he obvious can't take it. It's a victory. And even better, I don't have to comment there anymore and can return to my life.
The only thing that bums me out is that the friends I made over there don't know any of this, and are going to think that I just gave up. I didn't give up, he did! So that sucks. I wish they knew that he wants liberals to shut up.
What I've discovered through all of this is that no matter how hard you try, no matter how much sense you make, no matter how many facts you have, you can't make these people admit they are wrong. Ever. So there's really no point in trying.
But at least you can force them to surrender, so I'll take that as my small victory.
19 comments:
Winning run scores on a bunt squeeze-play!
Chalk one up for the “open-minded” team.
Final score...
Open-minded -- 1
Close-minded -- 0.
I found it interesting that you mentioned 9/11 as where it went wrong for most of them.
That right-wing paranoia has to be frightening to live with.
AHHHHH TOO FUNNY!
It's hilarious that your simple comment about Michelle Obama is what did him in?
come on, name the blog! this is hilarious.
actually what is more hilarious is yesterday's damning exposure of obama hugging a dude at a rally twenty years ago. the horror!
obama is the best thing to ever happen to a guy like breitbart...if it wasn't for him nobody would care about the BIG sites.
It's really weird when these people we find so hard to understand are our own family members. It's really beyond comprehension how people who've had most of the same life experiences I've had can think they way they think. So disheartening.
As you know, I know exactly who you're talking about. Your beef is between the two of you, but I'll say this much: If someone took the death of my friend as an opportunity to try to score a point in an ideological argument, I may not ban or delete that person, but I'd definitely consider them something of an asshole.
On many (repeat several times) issues, I don't agree with this person either, though I consider him a friend. In fact, I can count on one hand the number of friends I have who do agree with me on most political/current events - something I can live with, considering how stupid I find most people to be (even otherwise very smart people).
That said, I have never known him to lie. I guess there's no reason to defend his honor, since you don't name him, but I just wanted to put that out there. And no, I'm not a fan of Santorum, Palin, Romney, Newt, or any politician for that matter. I'm not a Republican. I'm not an "extreme conservative" or even conservative, but I am extreme in my views (again, don't see this as a big deal since most people I encounter are dead wrong about so many things).
Andrew Breitbart was a friend of mine - not a hero, but a friend. If you cracked some joke about him on my blog, as part of some pursuit of the "sweet taste of victory" or other point scoring, I'd be disappointed and disgusted, but it wouldn't bother me. As Andrew liked to say when people said crazy shit about him: "Oh well!"
jackie...
first of all, i hope you said the same thing to your friend andrew breitbart when he was dancing on the grave of ted kennedy. did that make him an asshole to you? it seems to me, if you were a friend and a fan, he's the last guy who would give a shit about people saying things about him after his death. in fact, i'm pretty sure that's what he would've loved.
but that's beside the point! how is "jim, you sound like michelle obama" a terrible thing to say? honestly! that line isn't even about breitbart. jim says michelle obama shouldn't tell people how to eat, then he does a post telling people how to eat. it's humorous to point out the similarity, that's all. are we going to seriously pretend that he's that thin skinned?
i'm stunned that you think a michelle obama line is crazy. it's not even in the same universe as the things that have been written by both of your friends. please.
as for "lying", it's just easier to say than "misrepresentation of facts", or "manipulation of words", so i just called it lying. which i believe he does, quite frequently.
but jackie, no disrespect, honestly. i hear you, i just think you're wrong about this.
Wow, this could get long. First of all, I'm glad you're okay with lack of agreement. It's a refreshing change from the web norm.
1) Andrew definitely danced on Kennedy's grave. For context: I posted this on my Flickr page the day he died: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaxuk/3860078124/ - dude killed someone and not only got away with it, but went on to be hailed as a hero by people, which is all kinds of messed up in my view. Your mileage may vary.
What I wouldn't do is go into the comments of someone's blog who knew Kennedy (or even just admired him) and post that stuff. I kept it in my yard. Unless you have evidence to the contrary, I'm pretty sure Andrew kept his comments on his own platforms. If he went into people's blog posts posting anti-Kennedy comments on their remembrance posts, yeah, that would have been assholish toward those people.
And no, I don't think a guy who killed someone and got away with it because he came from a rich, powerful family should be compared to Andrew Breitbart.
2) The Obama comment, by your own admission, was intended to score points in your pursuit of "the sweet taste of victory" - otherwise, why gloat about it?
3) The difference between Jim saying people should take care of themselves and the wife of the president saying it is that the wife of the president has been a top cheerleader for highly criticized legislation pertaining to food availability. So whether you agree with her or not, you have to admit that Michelle Obama isn't just a blogger mourning a friend who's saying, "Gosh, people should take care of themselves so they can live longer lives" - she's made this her cause and is using her influence to put laws on the books. Again, you can think she is 100% on the right track and still admit that comparing her to Jim is not realistic.
To clarify, I don't think your Michelle Obama line was "crazy," as you put it. I just think that it was insensitive to post it to the blog of someone who's grieving.
Look, everyone can be assholes at times, but this illustrates why I avoid politics on the web, TV, and in conversation with 99% of people - it's just not worth it. People get so worked up over this stuff, which really isn't about the issues, and they use it to beat other people over the head. It's ugly. I rarely talked politics with Andrew Breitbart, and in fact Jim unfriended me on FB because I said that any of my friends who'd even consider voting for Santorum should unfriend me. My fault for mentioning politics on FB, but it was a pretty neat example of why I see politics as divisive, damaging, and personally harmful to individuals.
Sorry for the length of this comment, but I don't have time to be brief.
1. the "but kennedy killed a girl" argument is very common. and i get it. i'm no fan of ted kennedy, but he was beloved by many, and did a lot of good things for a lot of people. you could argue he did a lot more good for people than andrew breitbart did. liberals love kennedy, conservatives love breitbart. you say there's no comparison, a liberal would say you're damn right there's no comparison, ted kennedy was a saint and breitbart was the devil! you think ted kennedy was awful, but he had friends too.
was jim really friends with breitbart? i'd say that's a stretch. regardless, i don't see how me mentioning that jim sounded like michelle obama is mocking his grief. i was making a point that maybe he and michelle obama have some common ground. this seemed particularly relevant since in the week previous jim had done multiple posts about how michelle obama sucks. it wasn't about breitbart dying.
2. honestly, i was not pursuing victory with that comment, it was just a consequence of it. my point in posting it was to show how when someone you like dies, all of the sudden it's okay to preach about healthy living. i was never seeking a victory, but once i was "banned", and a guy who bullies and shouts people down daily couldn't handle me anymore, i declared victory, in (i hope) a joking way.
3. yes, i know that there's a big difference between michelle obama and jim. but once again, i was just pointing out that he was saying things that michelle obama would agree with. and do you think jim ever says, "well i agree with michelle obama's point, but..." No, instead he calls her fat.
overall, i'd probably agree with you if we lived in a vacuum. unfortunately, if you look at the hate filled things that are being said routinely in these conservative circles, and on jim's blog, i can't imagine my michelle obama comment being any more harmless. to suddenly to draw a line and pretend like this is so insensitive is absurd to me.
see? you went long, i went long! but this is why i don't avoid politics, because i love hearing these very different opinions. and i very much respect your opinion on this, and i'm sorry your friend died, i enjoyed his appearances on bill maher's show.
Yes, Jim and Andrew were friends.
Personally, I hate the kind that comes out online - and it's not exclusive to any one corner of the internet. (If you think political blogs are bad, try some of the mommy blogs and parenting forums. Go specifically to the breastfeeding, diapering, co-sleeping, or pacifier discussions. Those make it look like Olbermann and Hannity are BFFs - seriously unhinged, hateful, vicious stuff. My natural inclination is to try to make everyone get along, so these kinds of discussions are borderline traumatic FOR ME. That's my baggage, no one else's.
I think things are calm enough to be left where they are in terms of this thread. I've been in enough flamewars in the past to err on the side of leaving before it gets nasty. This was pretty respectful, even if we still don't agree, so thanks.
I used to live in Tennessee.
/endcomment
-12pt
I unfortunately know more than a few people like the one you mention, and the reality is that they are seriously deluded individuals ... they say that about those who oppose them, but we're not the ones refusing science and reason, they are.
re Trolling ... you're not trolling if you're fact-checking ... trolling is when you're deliberately trying to start a fight as opposed to an honest debate ... I'm sure your friend thought you were a troll, but fact checking is not the same thing.
Not to get in the way of your other debate, but even if Andrew B was a friend of folks here, it can be said he was a controversial media figure who has said and done some really terrible things ... far worse than Ted Kennedy ...
As Matt T put it, he may have been a good friend, but in his public life Andrew B was a complete douchebag ... we can be sorry for his family and friends that they lost him, but honest about who he was and what he stood for, can't we?
And I don't see that your comment was bad (or even about Andrew) but it was likely that your innocent comment was the last straw in a long line of camels your buddy had lined up.
At the end of the day, I feel sorry for these deluded souls lost in an ideology that hurts them as much as it hurts others ...
What am I missing here?
I get it that your ex-friend was mourning the death of Breitbart.
As I understand your post, and comments, his blog that day was somewhat of a political nature, dissing Michele Obama. My thought is that if you have a blog, with public comments, then you better have a lot of thick skin, and sound reasoning, because people are gonna post comments that you don’t agree with sometimes.
What might’ve happened is that he had no comeback for your comparison of him and Michele Obama. What could he say? You made sense.
Regardless, either take some time off while you’re in mourning or stick to posting only about Breitbart.
I skip your posts about politics...I tune in to see what food you ate or refused to eat and what tv shows/movies you think we should see. For example, John Carter starts today and looks terrible, but Taylor Kitsch is in it. Also, why the heck was Jonny Mosley hosting the MTV Challenge After Show?
First off, all the blogs I read have turned into the mobile version. I hate that. And yes I know all I have to do is hit "standard version."
Second; Am I the only one who thinks both parties are equally bullshit and are basically working to further the New World Order's agenda?
Please don't think I'm weird or crazy. Thanks.
You're not the only one who thinks both parties are equally bullshit, but you're wrong for thinking so ... it's called false equivilancy ... one side is not equal to the other when it comes to douchery ...
The general problem with stubborn, stupid people is that they're too dumb to know they're dumb.
Republicans are more reality-challenged, more tribal, more extreme.
What are you gonna do?
You are no different from those conservatives who can't see their own biases and self-serving distortions. Remember the occupy wall street comment frenzy? Your condescended to him/her, acted like ows's priority should be to win your approval and support.
That's exactly how conservatives act. They don't understand why anyone has priorities that are different from theirs. Gay rights, health care, the wars, birth control... it's all stuff that doesn't affect them personally, so they don't understand why they matter to anyone else.
Tend your own garden, Irwin.
Just saw this headline...
"More than half of Mississippi GOP voters say Obama is a Muslim, new poll suggests"
Fifty-two percent say Obama is a practicing Muslim while 12 percent say he's a Christian and 36 percent are unsure.
Mississippi: the only state Alabama can make fun of.
"What I've discovered through all of this is that no matter how hard you try, no matter how much sense you make, no matter how many facts you have, you can't make these people admit they are wrong. Ever. So there's really no point in trying."
That's certainly the liberal pot calling the conservative kettle black!
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